Interview Six: DJ Mario Orlando

Mario Orlando is one of the most recognized Tango DJs in Buenos Aires.  This day, I didn’t have an appointment to have an interview with him but he spontaneously accepted by Carlos Matera who is the organizer of Sunderland kindly offering. The time was right after I interviewed Graciela and Carlos Matera, and the night was about to start.  People started to come into the milonga, eating, greeting with people, not much dancers on the dance floor yet.  I wanted to interview a DJ also, so this was a wonderful bonus, and he gave us a very interesting talk.

Q. How long have you been a DJ?

 I have been DJing more or less 30 years.  In here (Sunderland) I’ve been DJing about 10 years.  There is a place I’ve been DJing for more than 15 years.

Q.  When you provide music, how do you decide which music to play?

 The music that I play is adapted by the style of the neighborhood.  Each neighborhood has its own style and steps are different.  What distinguishes the style here (Villa Urquiza) is elegance and steps are long.   There are places like in Center (central area of down town BsAs) that I play faster rhythmic tangos, like D’Arienzo, Biagi, Rodoriguez.   Certain music is not as popular as other clubs.  For example, when I play Rodoriguez in here, they would dance to it, but they are not very happy, because it doesn’t conform the style they dance.  Here what they like is Tanturi, Calo, Troilo, Di Sarli, D’Agositono, I put a lot of Di Sarli here. 

The music that I’m playing now is a new Orchestra with a style of Di Sarli.  It sounds like Di Sarli but it’s a new group by younger people with it’s own personality.  What I try to do is to put some new music so people would get used to slowly.  I keep the tradition but at the same time I do adapt to the new people, new milongueros.  I up date repertoire but keep the night on the tradition.

Q. Do you change music by seasons?

  Not exactly by the seasons, but the season changes the crowds and I change the music by the crowds. For example, in the low season which usually happens in April ~ August, the mood changes in milongas, because there are more locals and not many tourists.  Also there are times when we have more people from Europe, Japan, or the US.  So I change the music by the people and the atmosphere.

Q. Do you find local people and foreigners have different taste in music?

I think foreigners are more open-minded.  Argentineans tend to dance just 5 orchestras, and no more.  That’s all they want to hear. 

When I started traveling abroad to DJ, foreign DJs asked me “you don’t know this music?” It’s not that I don’t know, I have the music but I don’t play it because people wouldn’t dance to it.  With foreigners I need to be more open-minded.

When I play music I always try to put lots of energy into the music and I find foreign DJs don’t have much energy in their music.

Q. How do local people accept music?

I think in tango, there’s always been a great attachment in terms of music.  For example the milongueros in the '30s, they were used to the music of the '30s, so when the music of the '40s came around, they said “No, you can’t dance to it” because it was not familiar to them. But obviously the same thing happened in the '50s.  A lot of orchestras came out in this period, for example, D’Angeles.  People called carousel music.  It was not accepted because they didn’t recognize the music the way they adapt dancing.

Q. In general do DJ people dance tango?

 No, the majority does not dance.  They can’t dance.  But I think that is a big mistake, not being able to dance as a DJ.  I’ve been dancing for 25 years.  I dance and DJ Salsa, too.  I like other styles as well.  I used to DJ Disco, weddings, different kinds of parties and events. 

Q.  What was it like DJing for other events?

It gave me flexibility to be very energetic in my music.   For example, you are in a wedding party with the moment when everybody is eating, I noticed that DJs would put music that are very very relaxing, like elevator music.  The music was too quiet it made people to sleep.  By the time people started to go dancing, they were too relaxed, it was impossible to move and dance.  (Laugh) So what I did was to put the music that people used to dance ten years ago while they were eating. By recognizing the music, people would get into the mood. I had different ways to put people to get up.  This is the way I kept to make people get up and dancing in Tango.

So you need skills to observe people in many different ways.

I think that the DJ is the psychiatrist of the dance floor.  Not of the individuals but of the dance floor.  Once I was invited to give a talk about the anthropology of the dance floor, by a friend of mine who is an anthropologist.  Because in tango, there are different characters.  For example, the people go dancing in the afternoon are different from the people in the evening.  Tango people in the afternoon are the people who have problems, coming from lost in time.  They come to dance to be released, to forget about their troubles.  People who go out in night, they only want to have good time. 

Q. How do you find being a DJ?

There was a milonga that I was DJing for 11 years.  One night I was passing music of Canaro from 1927.  The floor was very packed, because the music was so beautiful.  People were complaining because the floor was so packed they couldn’t move.  There was a woman who was dancing, and when she came around me she says “Take away this music, it’s depressing me.”  I said “Well, I am very sorry about that but I am the DJ not your psychiatrist.”  Obviously they were complaining that they couldn’t dance. (laugh)

This job is very stressful.  I have various friends who stopped working as DJ because  it’s very difficult.  People are never happy, always criticizing you.  You can never please everybody.  It’s very thankless job.

I need to go back to the booth and change the music now.

Thank you so much for your time.

Miscellaneous

"Mario Orlando is my real name, not an artistic name."

"I work from Tuesday to Sunday DJing.  In Thursday and Friday I have two milongas.  I leave home at 3 in the afternoon and go back home 6 am in the morning."

"There are places that I put non-traditional music too. One of the milongas that I DJ is a gay Milonga (La Marshal).  Obviously it’s not traditional.  In that milonga, I put  music like electronical, Greek music.  It’s called gay milonga but a lot of people go there are not gay."

The following Thursday, I went to El Arranque the afternoon milonga (Central BsAs) and accidentally met him again.  He asked me, “do you find the difference in music?”  Yes, I heard more rhythmic music, a lot of D’Arienzos  J  and the steps were smaller.  He was in a T-Shirt more relaxed atmosphere and it made me more relaxed too. 

Interview Five: Sunderland Club "La Milonga del Mundo"

This is an interview with Graciela and Carlos Matera, the organizers of the Sunderland Club "La Milonga del Mundo". Sunderland Club is one of the most important and respected milongas in Buenos Aires, located north of the capital in the neighborhood of Villa Urquiza. This milonga is held every Saturday night. I asked and arranged an appointment for an interview before the trip and Graciela and Carlos kindly agreed to see me and to do the interview. The interview was done one hour before the milonga, on December 12, 2009.


When was this club found?

The Sunderland Club is a social club and it was found 93 years ago. The milonga started in 1940s.

Are you the founder of this milonga?

The founder was a tango lyricist. His name is Mario Battistella.

When did you start organizing this milonga?

We started about 10 years ago. There were many others after we lost Battistella . The name "La Milonga del Mundo" ("the milonga of the world") represents us. And it's been about 10 years now. The name of the milongas has always been Sunderland Club since Battistella, but "El Mundo" means us.

What is the intention behind this name "El Mundo"?

Because all the greatest dancers, like Gavito, Gloria and Eduardo who brought tango to the world they all started from this club.

I hear Sunderland is a different kind of institution, created by this neighborhood, "Villa Urquiza". It is not the same as rest of the milongas. What does it mean?

Because this club created quantity of important dancers, such as; Finito, Petroleo, Portalea Villarrazo, Lampazo. These are the older generation. And for the next generation there are Balamaceda, he's not from Urquiza but he was here to dance, Gavito, Zotto, Rivarola, Maria, Gloria and Eduardo. They all came out from this club.

Did all these dancers' parents danced in this club too?

No, no. Not in every case. There are families like Misse, all the children dance professionally but their parents don't dance tango. Javier Rodriguez comes here to dance but he's parents are not tango dancers.

So this area just happened to create good dancers?

No, because there were many great dancers in other neighborhoods also, but in this neighborhood, Villa Urquiza created the strongest dancers and many of the good ones brought more good ones. It didn't happen accidentally. There was a cause. This was in the golden age of tango. These dancers were identifiable, and created different styles. The styles were based on walking. It happened because of this big space also.

Were there many milongas in this neighborhood back then?

There were many, many others.

And only this milonga remained?

Only this and Sin Rumbo. There are still many more social clubs remaining now, but the milongas didn't remain.

Do you know why, this club remained?

It's a mystery. This place doesn't have any special ambiance, no luxuries, nothing special. Somehow it happened. It's a strange thing that some places put lots of effort to put beautiful floors or curtains, but they don't succeed. It's just a magic that happened here. It's something that we can not explain. We don't even do much publicity. All we do is to put fliers on the table announcing who's performing next week.

Were you open in the 70's?

No, it was the years during the dictatorship. All the milongas were closed that time. It was reopened in the 80's. I don't remember exactly which year.

Did you dance back then?

Yes! Yes, we did! We had private events more than anything that time. With people who could not stay without dancing, we got together like 20- 30 couples. We ate and danced together every weekend.

Do you have the same DJ all the time?

Yes, we have the same DJ, Mario Orlando for 10 years since we started. Would you like to interview him also?

- Yes, I would love to! Thank you.

What is the most important thing as an organizer?

To meet the people that come. We give the vibe, warmth, make sure they are comfortable as they were at home. Give personal attention, welcoming. Of course provide good music... etc.

As being organizers, what kind of changes do you see over these years. I think tango has been changing and what kind of changes do you see as organizers?

Yes, yes. There are changes. There are, and the changes are made by younger people, the younger generation. There are changes in Tango but I believe here in Urquiza, we are keeping the tradition within the club. We are always going back to the roots of the tango.

The part of the reasons I am doing this, is because I think there are so many foreigners now than before, and I feel the increase of the foreigners is also creating the changes in tango. By us not knowing the codes or not understanding the essence, I'm afraid we are breaking tango into something else. I want to give the message to the foreigners that there are many other things we should know when we are dancing tango. I believe all foreigners wish to dance authentically. It doesn't mean we don't care. We want to know. We are simply ignorant about these matters. I wonder if you could kindly give us how you feel about foreigners' behaviors that seem to be trouble, so we can learn and dance better.

(they looked very much in trouble, being asked difficult question, but they kindly opened up to us and gave us honest feedback)

What I see all the time is, I see people (foreigners) want to learn very much, but they don't pay attention to the sensibility of the dance. All they want to learn is the mechanical part.

To talk about the codes, when they dance on the dance floor, they are not aware of other couples. There's no attention, no care to the other dancers on the dance floor. They go one way, then go to the other way, those dancers are thinking only about themselves. No manner. Passing, crossing other couples, these are rude. Also not having an embrace, to be open, that is a part of the problems causing traffic on the dance floor. Because embrace is the transmission.

When I go to milongas now, I feel I see elder people retired which is the majority, many tourists, and some young Argentinean people who are professionals.

Yes, I know what you mean. Right now actually there are more teachers than students. So many maestros. Most of them are maestros on the dance floor.

Has is always been this way?

Before people were just dancing for their own pleasure. Nobody thought they can make money or become professional by tango.

Before people learned from each other. They tried some figures, while other people were watching, then you try to do it yourself with someone at the corner, it was not something that you pay, or charge money to teach. Men practiced with men. There were practicas which was done only by men, because women were taboo. Women were not accessible back then. Also the difference in the old days, the good women dancers were called good "accompaniment", because the figure of women in relationship were more complicated. Now the women are dancing their parts, not only accompanying men.

Last question. What is your wish for the future of tango?

Our wish for the tango is to grow more and to be known around the world. World means in many different ways. To all kinds of cultures and people. To become more and more popular and be adopted in different cultures, but adopted in the right way, without changing it's nature. Now, there are many places they dance tango, but they are dancing it without understanding the roots and the tradition.

We wish tango to become more popular but with respect and understanding the roots of the tango, and not become something else. Keep dancing in the traditional way.

Thank you very much for your time.

Kumi's Journal: BA 2009 - 2

Each time I come to Buenos Aires, I feel the city is getting cleaner and healthier.  I feel more joy in the air.  My first trip to Buenos Aires was in February of 2000.  I was with my husband Yuki, BF at that time.  It was before the crisis (December of 2001), and the city was dark.  I felt the city had some kind of deep stagnation, ready to be explored. When I got back in 2005, I was so surprised that the city was filled with happiness, such a healthy energy.  Since then each time I go back the city looks cleaner and nicer.  I feel people are getting more jobs and making money. Things are circulating well and people are happy.  But I don’t know how much that is true.  I heard the economy and government is not doing well (“but that’s all the time, it has always been…” that’s what foreigners said but not the Argentines) and it’s getting very dangerous, but I didn’t particularly feel that this time.

When we went to Sin Rumbo (one of the historical Milongas in Villa Urquiza, north of capital) back in 2000, we didn’t know it would be so far away from the central area, we started to feel very insecure in the cab, because we felt the cab driver was taking us to out of nowhere.  I started to feel “Maybe we are going to be robbed… but at least I am with Yuki, I am not alone.”  The taxi came into a residential neighborhood, and the driver stopped couple of times to ask for the direction and finally, we safely arrived to Sin Rumbo.  The place was very dark and empty.  There were only two couples sitting at the tables and three guys were standing at the back talking.  After we danced a few tandas, I danced with one of the guys from the back corner.  The dance was incredibly wonderful…!  When I went to Sin Rumbo this time, I noticed that the Sin Rumbo we went in 2000 was not Sin Rumbo!  Because the real Sin Rumbo I went this time looked completely different.  I guess the cab driver couldn’t find the place, we were taken to a different Milonga!  No wonder I felt strange not recognizing the place when I watched videos from Sin Rumbo.  I can’t believe after all these years until now, we always believed we danced in Sin Rumbo (LOL).  But the dance I had with the guy from the back corner was the BEST DANCE I’ve ever had even ‘til today.  I wonder what milonga we were taken?

When I went into the real Sin Rumbo this time, I saw Oliver Kolker and Silvina Vals dancing rock’n roll.  Nice to see dancers from New York J  Close to the entrance, Natacha Poberaj one of my favorite female dancers was sitting, and Carlos Rivarola was sitting behind our table.  Daniel who was escorting me that night seemed excited to find Rivarola, and asked me if I wanted to ask Rivarola for an interview. Carlos Rivarola is a very important historical dancer.  He was in the movie “Tango” dancing with Julio Boca.  I know he has a very important position in the tango industry, but I don’t know why he is so important and I don’t know about him well enough to interview.  I quietly looked back, and saw his face.  He had a very serious face…. hmmm, well, I want to interview him but maybe next time, I told Daniel.  We found Osvaldo and Coca, very happy to see them again.  I didn’t expect to dance in this Milonga since this is a neighborhood milonga, they all come in couples.  That is why I asked Daniel to accompany me.  But I was asked to dance!  Very happy!!  As we were leaving the place I was introduced to Julio Duplaa, the organizer of Sin Rumbo and talked about interviewing Sin Rumbo when I visit next time. 

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Taking the subways in the city, I saw many young gay couples.  I didn’t see lesbians, maybe there were but guys looked more obvious, and I felt they were really addressing it.  I thought it is like in the 80’s in New York.  Gay people really acting for their rights. Once I was in a crowded subway, one gay couple started to show affections to each other, people around them especially guys looked not comfortable (still it’s a very machito country), then they became more aggressive and started to kiss.  People around tried not to pay attention.  Then a young couple  (a guy and a girl) standing next to them started to kiss as they were competing or to stop them. The gay couple slowed down, and got off at the next stop.  Soon after that on December 28^th,  gay marriage became legal in Argentina.  The first country approved in Latin America.  

I hear gay night clubs has been very popular including gay milongas. It sounded like a hip place to be. I heard many women get to practice leading there.  I didn’t have a chance to go, but I saw a lot of women leading in regular milongas also, especially end of the night.  I lead a lot in New York, but I stayed conservative.  Well, I have so many lovely locals to dance with, and I love dancing with 70, 80 year old dancers, why should I lead?!  In some milongas, many milongueros came walked in front of me to ask if I wanted to dance.  This never happened before, what happened to cabeseo (eye-to-eye contact)?  Maybe they do it only to tourists?  This is different from before.  But I see this is how codes and traditions change. 

Many of the dancers that I interviewed talked sadly about not having the codes any more.  First I didn’t really understand what code meant.  But I guess “codes” are not just about rules, I think it comes from being thoughtful to one another.  A guy comes in front of you asking to dance.  What if you didn’t want to dance with him?  So they have eye-to-eye contact asking yes or no.  But maybe, because of many of us foreigners don’t know about this system, locals started to walk up to us?  I guess the shape of thoughtfulness changes by the changes of people. 

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When I go to milongas the crowd is mostly made by older people who are retired, people younger than that are foreigners, and if I see younger Argentines, they are all professionals.  I see very few regular Argentines.  Maybe I am wrong. Or maybe the places I went happen to be that way.  But it is very obvious that there are so many foreigners in milongas and the tango businesses are very much supported by foreigners.  For me, it looks something not natural.  I think the culture won’t grow if there are no regular Argentine people.  And I feel this increase of foreigners is changing the shape of Milongas.  In a few decades we will loose all these elderly people who created the tango scene today, and the new generation and foreigners will take over the milongas.  What I am afraid is in the future, tango might loose its authenticity, and will become like “Dancing with the stars”. 

It is wonderful that tango is expanding broad to the world and creating more dancers and those dancers from all over the world come to join the dance floors of Buenos Aires.  But I think foreigners should learn more about the culture of this dance and the professionals should give more opportunities to teach the culture of this dance and explain the meanings behind the steps.  Because even you dance the shape of tango, if there is no essence, it is not tango any more.  And Tango will die if the majorities dance without its essence.

Many of the dancers who I interviewed said “It doesn’t have to be Argentinean.  There are so many bad Argentine dancers too and there are many good dancers who are non Argentines.”  They were particularly upset with young dancers.  They said, “ Foreigners can transmit our dance.”   … I don’t know.  Maybe because I am Japanese, I have a different way of  seeing things.  I want regular non professional Argentine people to carry on this dance.  But what can I do…. 

But by the end of this trip, I started to find out there is a new movement happening in Buenos Aires, to keep the tradition of tango.  I read somewhere that there was a tango festivals focusing in tradition.  El Tangauta was featuring interview with Chicho (pioneer of Tango Nuevo dancer) saying that he regrets he didn’t teach the tradition that he learned from his masters now he wants to emphasis the importance of understanding the essence of  tango.  Pablo Veron was also talking about the importance of traditions too.  And I slowly started to find out that there are actually many regular Argentine people started to take lessons to learn tango just for their joy.

So, I guess I don’t need to worry so much.  The locals are starting to put efforts in keeping the tradition, the movement is starting.  That means it will come to us very soon.

Kumi's Journal: BA 2009 - 1

This is a journal of my interview trip to Buenos Aires December 8^th to 20^th, 2009.  From this trip I interviewed Osvaldo y Coca, the organizers and the DJ of Sunderland club, El Flaco Dani, and Nito y Elba.  Since I don’t speak the language, theses interviews were held with help of translators, which are my friends from NY, and recorded to tapes.  It will need a lot of time to put together them in writing, so I am going to write my experience what I saw, what I felt, whom I met, what I found out….. all about Argentine Tango from this trip.

A lot of people ask me if I want to publish a book by this.  Well, that sounds good to me, but that is not the purpose I am doing this.  I want to do this, I want to keep this in more pure way.  I want to do this for the history, for the culture, for the people, and for us, us who once fell in love with tango and for the future of Argentine Tango.

I am Japanese and we have a long history and we have many old cultures and traditions.  Somehow in my own way, I feel tango is very similar to Japanese Tea Ceremony.   Japanese tea ceremony looks very up tight, and nothing about man and woman, but the bottom line of the ceremony is about  “I am making this tea for you, for this meeting, for this moment”.  We do everything very beautifully to make one cup of tea to make this meeting a wonderful one. 

The tea ceremony was started somewhere in 1400.  It took one hundred years to make the basic shape by Rikyu, and it took another 200 years to come up with the shape of today.  It says that the basic shape which Rikyu created had changed tremendously after Rikyu died and, and many different styles were created.  Taking another 200 years it came back to the basic shape of Rikyu style, and it is the basic style of today.  Tango has been danced about 100 years now, and I think the basic shape was made by the ones who have been dancing since the 40’s and the 50’s.  I feel tango has been changing and, I think it will change more after we loose these dancers from the golden age.  So I want to keep the voices of the pioneers for the dancers in the future.  To know where tango came from, to know the roots and to transmit the tradition of Argentine Tango made by their people, and ancestors.

When I asked questions to the dancers “I feel tango is changing, and what is your wish for the future of tango?”  I felt they were not quite ready for this question.  Usually they answered “If you are talking about Nuevo, Nuevo doesn’t bather me.  For me Tango Nuevo does not exist . Tango will not change”.  I felt for Argentine people, dancing tango is such a daily thing, I guess they never thought about this dance in a cultural historical way.  But when they hear “future of tango” they all stop once and tear their eyes.

For this trip, I started to write proposal letters for interviewing about a month ago.  I wanted to interview Suzuki Avellanda (wife of Pepito Avellaneda), El Chino Perico also, but we found out Suzuki moved to south of Argentina, and El Chino, we couldn’t get in touch.  I was very fortunate to get an interview the 2004 World Salon Champions, Coca y Osvaldo, by arrangements of Annatina Luck from New York and Daniel Aranda from Buenos Aires.  And Osvaldo and Coca happen to live in Avellaneda!  I was excited to hear Avellaneda, because Pepito was named because he was from this area.  Avellaneda is located south of Buenos Aires, it is a rather humble neighborhood.   

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We took a train from the constitution. Beautiful train station!  Like the ones I see in the old European movies.  

Arrived to the Olvaldo’s town, we got off the train, I smelled grass.  Kids were playing on the field.  It’s countryside. Cross the bridge, by looking at the big map, and asking people, we found Osvaldo’s house.  While we are walking I was told many of the famous dancers came from this neighborhood.  Pepito Avellaneda of course, Carlos Gavito, Nito Garcia, Pibe Avellaneda and Pibe Sarandi.  Many good dancers… it is hard to imagine this place (simple, nothing fancy neighborhood) created so many world famous dancers.  So happy to be here!!

Daniel rings the doorbell, Coca and a happy dog invite us in.  There is a big painting of Coca and Osvaldo in the room, and many photos of them on the walls.  The painting was done by a friend from many years, a teacher of painting and it was given to them when they won the world championship as a present.  I saw photos of Osvaldo on a horse and ornaments of a carriage with a horse.  Coca said Osvaldo loves horses and he used to join horse shows and the ornaments were all made by him.  As soon an I saw the ornaments, I said to myself “ahhh, Mano Blanca!”  Mano Blanca is one of my very favorite songs, and I have many personal stories with this song.  It is about a guy who rides a carriage with horses.  I wanted to see something related with this song in this trip.  I found it in Osvaldo’s home!  Perfect :) Osvaldo says when he lost his mother, he went into heavy depression, and he made many of these, which helped him a lot.

The interview was done in their dining room.  Osvaldo and Coca acts like teenage kids in love, so cute.   Osvaldo says he’s been living here since he was 8 years old.  There used to be many milongas around here in the 50’s.  They went to milongas on the weekends and practiced on the weekdays.  I asked if they danced in this room, and had parties on the weekends in the 70’s (when the country was in the dictatorship and tango was not danced much in dancehalls)  “No, no,” He says, they stopped dancing after they got married and didn’t danced until the 90’s.  I hear many old milongueros say “I’ve been dancing all my life” but he doesn’t say that.  He is very honest.  And  he continues, “but Pepito used to come here all the time and we practiced together in this room since we were kids.”   He said “if you like Pepito, he lived a few blocks from here, do you want to go see?”  Of course, I said “Yes!!”  Three of us got on Osvaldo’s beautiful black Fiat Ombu, (I thought it’s so  Salon “simple beauty”) while he’s driving, he pointed, “this was a milonga”, 

and pointed other way, “there was one too”.  Sounds like in ten blocks there were about 5~6 Milongas plus many small practicas in the 50’s.  In that time, people danced on the street too.  In the Carnival, (they say it’s like Halloween in America, and I think it’s like a street fair or Fiesta in little Italy), they had a Pasa Disco (Music player, the DJ for nowadays) came to play music on the street and people in the neighborhood gathered and danced.  It happened right in front of Pepito’s house.

This is Pepito’s house.  While I was taking photos of his house, one elderly man came out,

looking “not understanding what’s going on at all”, probably Coca gave him a phone call that we headed there.  He was Pepito’s brother, he still lives there.  Osvaldo explains the situation, then he went back into the house and brought one photo with Pepito and a paper looks like a certificate. (later on I asked Annatina about this paper, it is a certificate given to Pepito by the municipal because he is exceptional in the tango world).  Mosquitoes were flying all around us, maybe there were like 20, I couldn’t think very well from trying 

to avoid mosquitoes.  And looks like these mosquitoes don’t bite the locals.  I was told this house has an oven from Italy, a special oven to make pizza.  Then I remembered that YES! I read it in Todo Tango, Pepito’s father had a pizza shop and Pepito delivered Pizza.  When he delivered pizzas to dancing places and he didn’t come home ‘til 6 in the morning, then he continued to work without any sleep.  He was crazy with dancing.  I couldn't believe myself I was actually looking at the real place with my eyes, in front of me.  Pepito’s brother kindly told us to come back anytime to visit. 

Osvaldo took us back to his house, while he was driving he said Suzuki comes back every year. When she comes back next year, I should come back here, he will introduce her to me.  Inside the car, he was playing “Poema”.  What a pleasure listening to “Poema” in Osvaldo’s car! Played by Osvaldo, in Avellaneda, returning from Pepito’s home....nmmmm I am happy.  Of course I got bitten by many mosquitoes all over my legs and arms.  They are still itching today, even in this freezing weather in New York, after 3 weeks.

The following day we went to Sin Rumbo.  Osvaldo and Coca were there.  We didn’t know they were performing that night.  It was a very nice coincidence, meeting them again! When they were leaving, they kindly asked us if we would like to leave together, and Osvaldo offered us for a ride.  It was a cold night.  It was pretty hot in daytime, but at night it gets cold.  Annatina said this is so strange getting this cold in this season.  I wanted a jacket.  While driving on Corrientes, Annatina pointed out “this is Chacarita, where Carlos Gardel’s grave is”.  When I was here last time I tried to visit the grave of Gardel, but couldn’t find.  Instead I went to Abasto, did shopping at Carlos Gardel street.  How nice to be with the locals!  Makes everything so easy!  I have to visit this time, and it’s right in front of the subway. While we were talking, now Osvaldo says, “Do you know this statue of Pugliese?”  I said “no?”  then he stops the cars and told us to get out, started to show us the statue.  Buenos Aires tour, 2:30 am in the morning!  He took my arm and made me stand in one place, then handed my camera to Annatina and took her to the middle of the street, saying “take her from here”. We took many photos by Osvaldo’s directions.

I told this story to my friend after I came back to New York, then she told me that once  this Puguliese’s statue was stolen one night and it became a national news.  When I was there, the statue Pugliese was there.  They put a new a one.  Pugliese was a communist and he got arrested many times while he was performing.  A red rose was placed on his piano while he was taken away, and his orchestra continued to play.  

For the actual interview with Osvaldo y Coca, I will post it when I am ready.  I need a lot of help with translation.  If there’s anybody in New York area who would be interested in helping me, please let me know.  My e-mail is ClaraUeki@aol.com 

My journal will continue more.  I have more stories to tell.  Hope you are enjoying it.  Kumi

Interview Four: Carlos and Rosa Perez

Carlos and Rosa Perez are dancers who have maintained the style of the traditional tango rooted from the 50's.  They have been teaching at the Club Sunderland and the teachers of the world Champions, including the 2009 Salon Champion, Kyoko and Hiroshi Yamano.

Buenos Aires, October 2009

Dear Kumi

After returning from Austria, Denmark, Germany, London and Italy and now getting ready to leave for Canada. I fulfill my promise to answer your questions. I am not too fond of writing, I prefer to have a conversation about these themes. The "Gab" is more to my liking but because the distance between us is far, and out of respect to yourself and the readers of “El Cuartito de los Milongueros" here goes:

CARLOS PEREZ:

I began dancing in 1952. I learned mostly by practicing among fellows that were much older than I from 10 to 15 years my seniors. Very well known milongueros from that time.  Later one would dance in the dozens old neighborhood/barrio clubs that were around in old Buenos Aires at that time, where the music of the tango was queen and the majority of the public chose it.

Rosa started years later, in her home, practicing with her older brothers whom where the ones that later took her out dancing one Saturday.

We stopped dancing around the year 1964, when we were wedded. In that instance it wasn't well looked at to dedicate ourselves to tango as a way of life and we decided to place all our energies in forming our family.

Around this time there were only few places where to go dancing, there weren't that many venues available and they were frequented by older more advanced dancers. The younger community of dancers danced jazz, American boogie, (Swing Dance) and studied a lot of Tap.  Later came a style of Swing dance from Italy that wasn’t as popular but was the precursor to Rock-n-Roll* that set fire to our Argentine youth (still danced today in Argentina as well).

We began dancing professionally again in 1994 (because socially in family get together we always continued to dance).  It just so happened that one day I went to visit the person that showed me my first steps of tango, Jose "Lampazo" Vazquez a great dancer and teacher. He held us dear because we were once neighbors during my youth and my first teacher. In that chance meeting was born the club "Sin Rumbo" and my relationship was very warm as it has always have been with the maestro and friend.

Later on and suggested by him, we began going to the classes as a pastime for enjoyment. But shortly after, Jose began feeling ill and having health issues and asked us to replace him in his classes. This is how we reunited with the Tango dance.

A few years passed and we suffered the lose this great dancer and friend, Jose "Lampazo" and so we took over the classes he was teaching in "Sunderland" in Villa Urquiza" by the request of the Directive Commission of the Club.

This is how we started again our dedication to the teaching of tango dance.  It was just by coincidence that we had the luck of maintaining the roots in the tango traditional.  It had already been almost 30years that we haven’t danced nor were contaminated in the milongas during that time. All of our moves responded to the decade of the 50's and that was a great attraction to the youth (and not so young) to ask for more classes with great enthusiasm.

How many years do you dance with Rosa? My entire life, from the time we were very young we have been sharing life and the tango.  We came to the tango during the 50's with the passion and happiness that was of that era and with our own youthfulness.

Not one of the old "Milongueros" had any expectations, never thought of having any economic income with tango. With this I would like to say that in that era that no one got to travel because of tango. We danced it for the love of the music and as a form of conquest.

Dancing for us was a form of connecting with a girl and then the conquest. This is the reason we began to push ourselves to dance better each time and immerse our presence.

The first time we traveled because of tango was to Paris.  We gave classes for a period of two months. Later on came an avalanche of trips and performances: Challiot Theater of Paris, Parco de la Musica Rome, Teatro Colon Buenos Aires, theaters in Tokyo, just to name a few. We also were filmed in a few movies and documentaries for Television.

As I have been told by my elders, tango had its greatest height in the 40's and 50's.

In the 1940's the turn was created by Petroleo and el Negro Mansini two of the greatest Milongueros of that era, also known as the "Canyengue" era. 

With the pass of time that same tango was danced more delicate and elegantly. A lot of emphasis was given to the elegance in Salon style tango.

One would dance at house parties (without cortes or quebradas, very respectfully) in neighborhood/barrio clubs, generally on Saturdays or Sundays would be frequented by neighborhood girls always accompanied by a mother or older brother, because arriving alone was frowned upon.

Obviously there existed other types of dance salons, were men and women of the night would be and people with no jobs.

The music that was listened to during my time in the 50's was music that was played by live orchestras. Di Sarli, D'Arienzo, Pugliese , Canaro , Troilo, Calo, and many more.

The classic neighborhoods/barrios were one would dance would be Saavedra, Urquiza, Villa Pueyrredon, Villa Devoto, Villa Real, Paternal, Villa Mitre and other all around the capital. South of the capital they would dance a different style much more brisk what they call Tango Orillero.

Some dance halls and dancers that I remember are some of the ones that danced "50's style"(please forgive me if I forget to mention someone, I am a man getting on in my years and there are a few things that escape me)

Salon Agusteo, El Palermo located on Oro and Santa Fe, La Argentina, Alumni in Urquiza, Sin Rumbo, Viento Norte, Estudiantes de Villa Devoto, Moran, Glorias Argentinas, Floresta Junior, La Emiliana, Mitre, Sunderland, Pinocho, 17 de Octubre, California, Penacho Azul, Juventud de Belgrano, Excursionista, Chacarita Juniors, Villa Sahores and many more.  Milongueros I must name Jose Vazquez "Lampazo", Osvaldo Mosi "El Nene", Mingo Canonigo, Gerardo Portalea, Eduardo Pereja, Maita, Gallego Villarrazo, Frasquito, Petroleo, el Jorobado Victor, Negro Luis, Tomas Luis, Luis Lemos “Milonguita”, Juan Carlos Copes, Rogelio “El Tio”  and many more that I do not recall their names but were as great a dancers as the best in town.

In the 50's the Tango was one of the alternatives a youth had for his enjoyment, just as much as looking for girl, because back then that was no easy task.

The Tango was danced with a lot of feeling/emotion. The lyrics of the songs were things that happened to each of us in daily life, the street lights, the cobble stone streets, the love for the mother, love for the girl, a Buenos Aires lost in time.

We all respected the codes inside the dance, we all stayed in the line of dance, even if they weren’t the great milongueros. at the same time the majority heard the music with the same critic, even though the floor was packed one could enjoy. It was rare to see couples colliding, it was actually frown upon.

The lowest point for our tango was during the 60's. In those times there were rarely any places to go dancing, the vast majority had closed.

The actual tango itself has evolved a lot I reckon.  Because of other popular dances it has added elements such as movements from other dances, for instance the contemporary classic and others. Some to me seem very pretty and others I think deviate from its essence. Of course one must understand that things change and the young people always need to create something new.. that is all fine.

According to tango historians tango has its origins in afro influences where Candombe then el milongon and la milonga, the tango orillero, canyengue, salon style and lastly tango fantasia from the 50's I believe were the beginnings of Stage Tango.

For us, Tango meant something very special, always it was and in this chapter of our lives gives us permission to move to its rhythm of its music, embrace one another and turn back time enjoying its melody.

It allows us to meet people from different regions of the world, transmitting our traditional tango to the young of all ages and classes and besides being able to travel around the world where they cheer us with affection and respect that we have sown the seeds during all these years. It maintains us active and happy.

We have lived moments of intense happiness when we saw our students win in distinct world competitions and more so see them grow as dancers and persons traveling the world taking our popular music with a little bit of us with them.  This is beautiful!

If anyone were to ask me what one needs to be a good tango dancer I would say that they have to begin by learning the roots of this dance because in another way they could be good dancers but not good tango dancers, or else it becomes a dance that is done on tango music.

To achieve BEING A GOOD TANGO DANCER, one needs to fall in love with this music, a lot of consistency, dedication and be well guided by someone that knows what is Tango.

And on top of all that you have to keep in mind a popular saying "lo que natura no da, Salamanca no presta"**.. that is to say some have a special gift to overcome and some will never have it, just like with everything in this life.

CARLOS Y ROSA PEREZ

*Rock-n-Roll- Swing dance in double time

**lo que natura no da, salamanca no presta - What nature doesn't give you, Salamanca(a city) wont lend.